primroseburrows | (no subject)

So I've become embroiled in a discussion thread over at

abortiondebate. I didn't think the subject of the discussion really has anything to do with abortion, rather, it's about pregnancy and its perceived dangers. When I read it I felt I couldn't NOT respond, because I figure if I want to be a birth advocate and activist, it was almost an obligation to respond. That, and I actually do know a couple of things about the subject, although there are lots of people who put me to shame with their knowledge and experience.

Anyway, it seems that by at least one commenter, I've been branded someone who's forcing pregnancy and birth on women who don't want it. I don't see anything in my comments that even imply this.

Here's the thread. Whaddya think, flist? *shrugs*

Also, the sky didn't fall in Georgia last night, but

patchfire needed to use the computer to figure out where to go to get on the subway (yes! Atlanta has one!) for our trip to the State House for Homebirth Day. And yay! The House passed the resolution uncontested, and within a year there should be a study to assess the safety of homebirth in GA. Now if we could only get something like this in RI...

Anyway, I should be around from 9 to 11, give or take-ish, for Eddie to make his debut. Blank slate people, is there anything special I need to know other than to use the tag and a spoiler cut?

And oh.

mr_t00by, your mommy loves you. *hugs* Call me when you can?

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Ergh. and HA!

I've been there done that with them. Specifically, lil_elf and nothingmuch are just insipid drama hounds. I hate to sound mean, but it irks the hell out of me when girls like them take on *this* particular cause and clearly don't know the whole picture. But I digress....I believe you to be 100% correct AND my personal opinion is that you can't address the sexism and abortion issues in our country without addressing the misogynistic way we approach women's health care, in general, concurrently.

I think that community is largely and exercise in futility. They are really screaming because you disagree with a pro-choice article. Period. If you aren't 100% pro choice, w/o apology, abortions all the time, there are a few drama whores who will reply to you ad nauseum with ridiculously silly posts, implying all sorts of yucky things about you. Bleh.

It's funny, because when I've brought this issue up in RL, most people agree and tend to look at things differently.

The whole concept of pregancy being marketted as this horrific thing that we "put women through" just disgusts me, but that's whole 'nother kettle of fish.

If you aren't 100% pro choice, w/o apology, abortions all the time, there are a few drama whores who will reply to you ad nauseum with ridiculously silly posts, implying all sorts of yucky things about you.

The weird thing is, I wasn't even talking or even THINKING about abortion. I was defending birth. That is, birth for women who choose it. It's interesting that "unsafe abortion" was used as a pregnancy risk in third world countries. The mad debate skillz of this argument astound and amaze me. :/ Not that unsafe abortions aren't happening in those countries. It's just that listing them as reasons pregnancy is dangerous is something like an oxymoron. Women who want to stay pregnant don't HAVE abortions. Um.

This to me is misogynous propoganda devaluing women, devaluing pregnancy and birth, and putting more fear into women, so that when they DO get pregnant, they will be more likely to seek out high-tech prenatal care, which begins with the first ultrasound and ends with the very real possiblity of a cæsarian section.

this, to me, is all that needs saying on the matter. this is brilliantly put. this is publishable. this is GLORIOUS.

:: applause :: :: standing ovation :: :: hats off ::

*blush*

After I looked at all the stuff I wrote, I said to myself, "geez, you just wrote a paper!". The stats on maternal mortality were respectfully ripped off from the incredible midwife and birth activist Ina May Gaskin, who I'm fairly sure wouldn't mind a bit. *g*

No, I don't think you came across at all as forcing birth on women who don't want it at all. It seemed like you were saying that birth should not be treated as some amazing procedure that the doctor was performing and instead be treated as what it is, the natural way that species reproduce. Yes, women have died in childbirth or from complications from childbirth throughout history. They have also died from any number of other things. You were just saying that medical technology should be used when needed, but that it wasn't dangerous to start out with the idea that birth isn't something going wrong the doctor needs to take care of.

The majority of women dying from "childbed fever" happened after birth moved from the home and midwife to the hospital and doctor. Physicians would go from bed to bed, from woman to woman, without washing their hands in-betweeen. It was only after it was known that handwashing prevents disease (after germ theory was developed) that docs started proper handwashing and maternal deaths from infecion were drastically reduced.

I've seen parents tell the doctor what a "great job" he did, after he "delivered" the baby. Um, excuse me, Mr. MD, wasn't that the woman I just saw giving birth to her baby?

Whoa. I've never had a baby but I can't imagine giving the doctor any credit for something I just pushed out of my body! Not unless he did something. I was an RH- baby so good job on the blood transfusions etc. The rest I'm pretty sure my mom did.

I wish I had time to put my two knuts in; I'd love to say,
"and you can get hit by a bus crossing the street too!!". But, alas, RL is calling. I just barely glanced at the responses, and didn't read the entire thing. I'll try to come back to it tonite. But, I'm pretty sure, I would just cause more wanking. O_o
You done good, Gunga din. *hugs*

I was going to point out that driving to the store is almost definitely more dangerous than having a baby, but mneh.

Eh, she's got her mind made up and her blinders on. Even though she tries to be oh-so-liberal and openminded, she really isn't.

The main reason there are so many C-sections is because if a doctor doesn't do one, and there's a chance that the baby may not be OMG exactly perfect, he's liable to be sued for everything he's got, and also likely to lose in a jury trial. So rather than take the risk, they go the C-section route (which has plenty of its own risks as well).

Argh, that was an annoying read. :-P

Seems like she was trolling you, to be honest. Further upthread, she even linked to the thread, implying you were were saying something you aren't.

I'm pro-choice, which means exactly one thing: I support a woman's right to make her own decisions regarding her own reproduction. Whatever choices she makes, she has the right to make them, because they ultimately affect her and her body and her children. Period.

The thing I saw in your comment was that you were advocating for women and for pregnancy. How she got from your comments an anti-abortion perspective is is beyond me.

Mneh. I've stopped feeding the trolls on at least one of the threads. :/

I'm kinda squicked by this page, and I'm wondering, since you're a "pro" and my only birth experience was rather unnatural, if this has any relationship to the reality that you and I share.

http://www.caplakesting.com/2006_catalog/de/index.htm

I'm not exactly a pro (I'm a beginning student and have been a doula at a few births and had my own kids)--most knowledge I have comes from ~~obsessive~~ extensive reading.

And ick. That whole statue is squicky. Usually I like birth sculptures, but erm. Britney Spears? I don't know anyone who would give birth on JUST their knees like that. On all-fours, yeah, but with their bottom high in the air and their legs pointed up oh-so-seductively? *gags* And what's with the bearskin? And why is she a pro-life icon?

Besides, Britney Spears had a Cæsarean, so the whole idea is off.

No, there's nothing else you need to know, although making a 'Hi, I'm new, Eddie's entrance post is up, come play with him!' post to slated is never a bad idea.

And I can read his entrance post now. *sobs* page 404. I'm afraid to keep going, because I KNOW what's still to come.

Okay! I was afraid to post because I didn't want to do anything wrong. And bleh. The computer hasn't been easy to access for more than a few minutes at a time. Eddie's entrance post is all ready, I just need time to not only post it, but to have time to play. It's coming, though. I hope I won't have to wait until I go home, but that's only Monday, so I should stop tearing my hair out. :/

*hugs* How are you, dahlink?